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White had Anderson Silva beating Michael Bisping in UFC Fight Night 84 headliner   [View Full Version]
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george112 » Posted 1/24/07 7:00:00PM

I agree. It does make sense if you are looking at it that way. To me though, (and I think my perspective of the fight altered my conceptual understanding of the analogy) I didn't even consider the overall damage done to Bisping as a deciding factor on who won the fight. The stats don't lie and that is was JJeans was trying to point out.

Everyone knows scoring a fight on how someone looks at the end is illogical


Whither Anderson did more damage (at least to me) does not hold enough "weight", to counteract the busy-ness, knockdown, and small connecting shots of Bisping.

The above points coupled with Anderson pretty much giving away round turns it into a fight that Bisping pretty clearly won in my eyes.


Had Anderson actually fought in the 4th (like he did in the 3rd & 5th) he would have SURELY won a clear cut UD with Bisping winning the first 2 rounds and himself winning the last 3.

All in all, Tildengolfer said it best in another thread- It isn't so much that Bisping won the fight, it is more so that Silva lost the fight

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Jan 2007

State_Champ » Posted 6/11/07 4:16:00PM

I haven't watched the fight again... but that third round ending, and between rounds three-four, was weird. It's still bugging me.

I'm not sure Bisping should have been allowed to continue. Now, obviously, in hind sight Bisping was fine to continue. But, did Bisping even go back to his corner between rounds three and four.

george112 » Posted 1/24/07 7:00:00PM


Posted by State_Champ

I haven't watched the fight again... but that third round ending, and between rounds three-four, was weird. It's still bugging me.

I'm not sure Bisping should have been allowed to continue. Now, obviously, in hind sight Bisping was fine to continue. But, did Bisping even go back to his corner between rounds three and four.




Yeah he did, and it seemed like he got a little time to recover if I remember correctly though not intentional (I think)

I personally don't have a problem with how it played out.

Herb imo should have given the mouthpiece after it being mentioned THREE times. Silva threw the knee literally the split second after Bisping had turned his head back to face him. B

IMO Bisping almost deserved the extra time he got between rounds. A lot of that time though was due to Anderson thinking he won the fight though

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Jan 2007

BillsNewAccount » Posted 2/24/11 9:26:00PM


Posted by george112

I agree. It does make sense if you are looking at it that way. To me though, (and I think my perspective of the fight altered my conceptual understanding of the analogy) I didn't even consider the overall damage done to Bisping as a deciding factor on who won the fight. The stats don't lie and that is was JJeans was trying to point out.

Everyone knows scoring a fight on how someone looks at the end is illogical


Whither Anderson did more damage (at least to me) does not hold enough "weight", to counteract the busy-ness, knockdown, and small connecting shots of Bisping.

The above points coupled with Anderson pretty much giving away round turns it into a fight that Bisping pretty clearly won in my eyes.


Had Anderson actually fought in the 4th (like he did in the 3rd & 5th) he would have SURELY won a clear cut UD with Bisping winning the first 2 rounds and himself winning the last 3.

All in all, Tildengolfer said it best in another thread- It isn't so much that Bisping won the fight, it is more so that Silva lost the fight



But the stats do lie.

I hate trying to make arguments using ugly analogies but bear with me...

If I (an internet troll with no mma experience) were to fight Brock Lesnar during which Brock stands with his back to the fence and let's me tee off on him while he laughs it off, then at the very end of the round he decides to throw a punch that I partially block but that still manages to break every bone in my face. OK, now lets score the round, effective striking, octagon control, striking defense... I would have won every stat but to anyone with a working set of eye balls I would have lost the fight. In fact most would say it wasn't a fight all. It was just a display of Brock's awesomeness.

george112 » Posted 1/24/07 7:00:00PM


Posted by BillsNewAccount


Posted by george112

I agree. It does make sense if you are looking at it that way. To me though, (and I think my perspective of the fight altered my conceptual understanding of the analogy) I didn't even consider the overall damage done to Bisping as a deciding factor on who won the fight. The stats don't lie and that is was JJeans was trying to point out.

Everyone knows scoring a fight on how someone looks at the end is illogical


Whither Anderson did more damage (at least to me) does not hold enough "weight", to counteract the busy-ness, knockdown, and small connecting shots of Bisping.

The above points coupled with Anderson pretty much giving away round turns it into a fight that Bisping pretty clearly won in my eyes.


Had Anderson actually fought in the 4th (like he did in the 3rd & 5th) he would have SURELY won a clear cut UD with Bisping winning the first 2 rounds and himself winning the last 3.

All in all, Tildengolfer said it best in another thread- It isn't so much that Bisping won the fight, it is more so that Silva lost the fight



But the stats do lie.

I hate trying to make arguments using ugly analogies but bear with me...

If I (an internet troll with no mma experience) were to fight Brock Lesnar during which Brock stands with his back to the fence and let's me tee off on him while he laughs it off, then at the very end of the round he decides to throw a punch that I partially block but that still manages to break every bone in my face. OK, now lets score the round, effective striking, octagon control, striking defense... I would have won every stat but to anyone with a working set of eye balls I would have lost the fight. In fact most would say it wasn't a fight all. It was just a display of Brock's awesomeness.



I get your point I really do, and I was actually going to use the same analogy you used.

I decided not to use it because the fight we are talking about is a Judged fight. Which makes it a little more complicated (at least to me)

In this instance Bisping had more of the criteria that is needed to win the judges over. Ironically I don't even think it is Bisping's fault that happened. It was Silva's because of the 4th round (at least to me) coasting.

You pointed out a major flaw in the judging system which I myself think needs to be addressed soon. BUT at the same time this judging system that we have is not new, and Anderson knows that you can't always be so sure with the judges.



BUT

If Anderson had not taken a break during the 4th, I think he would have won the UD easily.



Now had Anderson actually fought back in the 4th and won the 5th and then lose. Then yeah it would have been a fucking robbery


EDIT

I forgot to mention your analogy

If that punch that Brock threw at the end of the round that broke your face was a KO shot then yeah he won that round and the fight

BUT

If you somehow managed to stay standing and made it to the next round, then I would say you won that round. Not because of the damage done to Brock, but because you displayed all of the criteria that is used by the judges to determine a winner of a round.

It is bullshitty I know but that is just the way it is, and has been for as long as I can remember

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Jan 2007

whodat » Posted 4/16/07 12:41:00PM


Posted by george112

Everyone knows scoring a fight on how someone looks at the end is illogical.




Tell that to the Diaz bros.

We just need to work on getting every main card fight to last until a finish.
Which is what real MMA would be...if we didn't have laws and regulations and such.

bjj1605 » Posted 10/11/07 4:18:00PM

I don't know....

Even by judges criteria, "effective striking" shouldn't just be a count of the numbers. Other wise it would just be "striking." Anderson was more effective despite lower volume.

I also think we need to re-think what "Octagon control" means. If a Counter fighter is leading you around and having his way with you, you aren't "in control" just because you're the one moving forward.

Look at how frustrated Bisping got when Anderson was clowning him on the cage and tell me that he was "in control" of the Octagon.

george112 » Posted 1/24/07 7:00:00PM

I agree to an extent


But on the same token:

Just because your name is Anderson Silva, does not mean that waving your arms trying to look all cool and shit means you're in control of the fight. Bisping landed more. That is a simple verifiable fact. And Anderson as well as everyone else know what the judges score on when it goes to a decision.

And it isn't even like Anderson was getting hit and not feeling them. Bisping dropped this dude in the 2nd. Do I think that that moment sealed the deal for Bisping? Hell no I don't. But I think Bisping deserves some credit where it is owed.

If yall remember I was actually talking so much shit on this fight way before it happened. Saying how Bisping was going to get destroyed.

Well he didn't get destroyed, and IMO the right guy won the fight.

I still stand by what I said though.

Silva "lost" this, more so than Bisping "won" it. He just plain fought the smarter fight.

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Jan 2007

bjj1605 » Posted 10/11/07 4:18:00PM


Posted by george112

Silva "lost" this, more so than Bisping "won" it. He just plain fought the smarter fight.



And I agree with that to an extent.

While I think Anderson should have won even by current judging criteria (and should have won by 3rd RND TKO) I admit that he didn't go after it as much as he should have.

If he'd wanted to finish I think he could have, but at the very least he could have been more aggressive and removed all doubt for the decision.

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