Pick'em Leagues: THE BIG SHOW CASUAL BEST OF THE REST Single Event PvP: FANTASY POOLS Betting Leagues: THE BIG SHOW BEST OF THE REST

Dan Hardy: Taking on Greg Jackson's Fighters Gets Boring

Print  
  Page 1 of 2     1     2  
Posted By Message

emfleek

Your Mom Is A Whore

emfleek Avatar
17
 
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:18,919
Career:3,180-1,718
Joined:Nov 2007
Camp: The Ringers
Chips:
2,310
When Dan Hardy steps into the Octagon to fight Carlos Condit at UFC 120 on Sunday, he'll be facing his second straight opponent who has Greg Jackson in his corner. The last time the fight didn't go so well, and Hardy is concerned that it won't go so well this time, either.

That's not to say that Hardy, who's coming off a loss to UFC welterweight champion Georges St. Pierre in March, is worried about losing to Condit -- he says he's confident that he'll win. But Hardy says he doesn't like the fighting style that Jackson teaches, and he believes Jackson-trained fighters exercise far too much caution in the cage.

"My biggest concern is that he'll fight a Greg Jackson style fight and run away for 15 minutes," Hardy said in a live chat with MMAFighting.com readers. "It's not that I don't like Greg Jackson's style but I don't like fighting guys he trains because they always take the safest route and that gets boring, they want to send it to the judges and that gets boring after a while."

LINK

_______________________________________
"I'm like the superhero coming in with the anti-bullsh*t." - Nick Diaz

Post #1   10/12/10 2:22:49PM   

seanfu

BANNED

seanfu Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:1,734
Career:233-122
Joined:Nov 2007
Chips:
254
Strategy!!! Anything but that!!!!!

Post #2   10/12/10 2:45:23PM   

Chuteboxer

Standup Guy

Chuteboxer Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:358
Career:297-176
Joined:Mar 2007
Camp: The Grappling Academy
Chips:
29
Nothing wrong with strategy at all; that's why Randy's been so successful. However, I wanna watch fights where the fighter finishes his opponent, and not playing it safe and going for a decision win. I mean, it is called a fight for a reason...

Post #3   10/12/10 3:46:02PM   

machodog76

MMA Sensei

machodog76 Avatar
17
 
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:1,889
Career:5,416-3,592
Joined:Jun 2007
Chips:
380
As a fan I can see Dan's point, just look at GSP then and now. I don't think Jackson fighters are going only for the decision though. I just think they fight smart and leave little chance of getting caught which seems to end up a decision more often that not. It's hard for me to get to down on guys for employing this kind of stategy when the UFC is so competitive and 1 loss can send a guy packing.

Post #4   10/12/10 5:25:00PM   

Bloodhound

Standup Guy

Bloodhound Avatar
3


 
 
 


 
 
Posts:498
Career:1,054-599
Joined:May 2008
Chips:
50
Greg Jackson has been really coming under alot of criticism because of the way his fighters fight lately. I understand putting together a good gameplan to win a fight but eventually showsmanship has to come into play, I mean its only so long you can squeak out close decisions in boring fashion and still maintain a good fan base.

Post #5   10/12/10 5:31:02PM   

Jackelope

Go ahead, MOD my day

Jackelope Avatar
4



 
 
 


 
 
Posts:7,223
Career:864-486
Joined:Jan 2007
Chips:
1,202
I mean do we seriously believe that Carlos Condit of all people is going to avoid a fight? All the guy does every time he steps into the Octagon is bring it. He's fought under the Greg Jackson banner before and he didn't back away then. Why would he now? I just can't see Condit doing that.

Anyways, there has certainly been a lot of hate for Greg Jackson fighters lately but there are things you can do to mitigate a distance and control based game plan. Why don't these guys start kicking legs, cutting off angles, etc? Don't blame your inability to implement a gameplan on their strategy.

Last edited 10/12/10 5:40PM server time by Jackelope
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #6   10/12/10 5:39:43PM   

seanfu

BANNED

seanfu Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:1,734
Career:233-122
Joined:Nov 2007
Chips:
254

Posted by Bloodhound

Greg Jackson has been really coming under alot of criticism because of the way his fighters fight lately. I understand putting together a good gameplan to win a fight but eventually showsmanship has to come into play, I mean its only so long you can squeak out close decisions in boring fashion and still maintain a good fan base.



This ^^^

And if you hate how guys are fighting maybe you can blame the shitty judges, reffing, and politics for ruining north american mma for everyone.

1 loss and it can take forever to get another shot, 1 loss and there's a more exciting fan favorite of a champ so you don't get another shot.

When it is more beneficial to lay and pray/ cage and pray/ pitter patter and run because damage and aggression dont mean anything in the fight and your only penalty is a standup then maybe the sport deserves what it gets.

This is why Japan puts a card together with a quarter the talent for twice the bang regularly.

Post #7   10/12/10 6:05:19PM   

Jackelope

Go ahead, MOD my day

Jackelope Avatar
4



 
 
 


 
 
Posts:7,223
Career:864-486
Joined:Jan 2007
Chips:
1,202

Posted by seanfu

And if you hate how guys are fighting maybe you can blame the shitty judges, reffing, and politics for ruining north american mma for everyone.

1 loss and it can take forever to get another shot, 1 loss and there's a more exciting fan favorite of a champ so you don't get another shot.

When it is more beneficial to lay and pray/ cage and pray/ pitter patter and run because damage and aggression dont mean anything in the fight and your only penalty is a standup then maybe the sport deserves what it gets.

This is why Japan puts a card together with a quarter the talent for twice the bang regularly.



I basically agree with all of that as well.

That being said, I do still believe that fighters need to start putting together techniques to counter this style. I mean look at Shogun. He did it to Machida. Why can't other fighters impose their will?

Post #8   10/12/10 6:18:32PM   

zephead

The Dancer

zephead Avatar
2

 
 
 


 
 
Posts:2,977
Career:541-400
Joined:Jan 2007
Camp: Ground'N'Pound
Chips:
418
The Flinstones have some really great fights

_______________________________________
"To me the records were just a starting point," recalls John Paul Jones, "The most important thing was always the stage show. So many great nights. At our worst we were still better than most. At our best we could just wipe the floor with the lot of them. It was just a very good live band."

Post #9   10/12/10 6:21:10PM   

seanfu

BANNED

seanfu Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:1,734
Career:233-122
Joined:Nov 2007
Chips:
254

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by seanfu

And if you hate how guys are fighting maybe you can blame the shitty judges, reffing, and politics for ruining north american mma for everyone.

1 loss and it can take forever to get another shot, 1 loss and there's a more exciting fan favorite of a champ so you don't get another shot.

When it is more beneficial to lay and pray/ cage and pray/ pitter patter and run because damage and aggression dont mean anything in the fight and your only penalty is a standup then maybe the sport deserves what it gets.

This is why Japan puts a card together with a quarter the talent for twice the bang regularly.



I basically agree with all of that as well.

That being said, I do still believe that fighters need to start putting together techniques to counter this style. I mean look at Shogun. He did it to Machida. Why can't other fighters impose their will?



Look at Frankie Edgar vs Matt Veach, he is much better in the standup but it means nothing without knockout power. I think Shogun's knockout power made the difference for sure.

Not everyone can do that imo. Look at it, constantly guys who just don't have natural power lose because without it their standup is not feared

It's why Hendo's atrocious technique is dangerous, because he only needs to land 1.

Last edited 10/12/10 7:41PM server time by seanfu
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #10   10/12/10 7:38:27PM   

warglory

Heavyweight Champ

warglory Avatar
1
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:4,023
Career:535-344
Joined:Feb 2007
Chips:
776
I completely disagree with anyone who disagrees with Jacksons methods. This isn't the WWE, this is a sport. If you fight solely for the purpose of trying to beat someone down without evolving, you turn into Wanderlei Silva or Chuck Liddell. And speaking of Silva, he didn't beat Bisping because he was reckless, he beat Bisping because he fought the smartest fight he has ever fought in his career.

Many fans seem to have a bit of a selfish attitude in that they "expect" the fighters to fight the way they want them to, instead of the fans learning to appreciate the way those fighters fight. Did the old Wandy and Chuck put on exciting fights? Yes, but they also got beat up, and are older beyond their years in terms of the abuse they have received. Everyone thinks Randy is this superhuman machine, but the reason why he is still capable of fighting into his mid 40's is because he fights smart, and has always fought smart. I have no doubt that if fighters like Machida and GSP want to fight into their 40's, they probably could, yet fighters like Shogun will probably be out of fighting within the next two years. People have to understand this is a fighter's chosen career, and they need to make enough money to subsist on after they retire. This same theory applies to NFL players, who if you can get 5 years in the league, you have had a successful career, but unlike the NFL, fighters don't have to collide into one another week after week, they can choose how their careers unfold. To expect fighters or their trainers to "put on a show" is ridiculously selfish in my opinion. Hell, most mma fans still find the ground game boring, and mistake wrestling transitions and ground n pound as lay n pray, which is a telltale sign they never watched the UFC in the early years.

Last edited 10/12/10 7:55PM server time by warglory
Edit note/reason: n/a

Post #11   10/12/10 7:53:39PM   

Bloodhound

Standup Guy

Bloodhound Avatar
3


 
 
 


 
 
Posts:498
Career:1,054-599
Joined:May 2008
Chips:
50
I Agree with the people defending the Greg Jackson style in the sense that I think if the fighter wants fight a boring gameplan it is there right to and their opponent should force them out of that gameplan but at the same time those fighters shouldnt say anything or complain when they get criticized buy fans or other fighters, And the ground game is very exciting imo but when you got casual fans watchin Rashad Evans & Jon Fitch doing the LnP decision style fighting with absolutely no activity otuside of getting takedowns and holding their opponent on the floor its gonna drive the casual fan away for the sport so I don't think its good for the sport. If your gonna take the guy to the floor actively attempt to pass guard, GnP, go for submissions. But hey if you dont want to do that and just fight a very LnP style dont expect to bring in any news fans or garner much respect from fans. at the end of the day fighters can fight how they want with the current judging system but if you fight that Greg Jackson style expect to get criticized.

Post #12   10/12/10 8:32:59PM   

FlashyG

Heavyweight Champ

FlashyG Avatar
45
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:4,444
Career:4,406-2,459
Joined:Feb 2008
Chips:
1,258
Hardy talks a lot of smack about finishing fights for a guy whose only got one finish in his 5 UFC outings.

Sounds like he's trying a long shot ploy to get Condit to stand and trade with him.

Post #13   10/12/10 8:57:46PM   

haggiswashere

MMA Sensei

haggiswashere Avatar
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:1,749
Career:384-281
Joined:Jul 2007
Camp: SKADUSH!!!!
Chips:
229

Posted by FlashyG

Hardy talks a lot of smack about finishing fights for a guy whose only got one finish in his 5 UFC outings.

Sounds like he's trying a long shot ploy to get Condit to stand and trade with him.



My thoughts too. I think he is just trying to get under condits skin. Thats just how he is.

Post #14   10/12/10 10:24:22PM   

machodog76

MMA Sensei

machodog76 Avatar
17
 
 
 
 


 
 
Posts:1,889
Career:5,416-3,592
Joined:Jun 2007
Chips:
380

Posted by FlashyG

Hardy talks a lot of smack about finishing fights for a guy whose only got one finish in his 5 UFC outings.

Sounds like he's trying a long shot ploy to get Condit to stand and trade with him.

Good call I handn't thought of that, I think you're right! I don't think one needs to coax Condit into a stand up war though.

Post #15   10/12/10 10:53:12PM   
 
  Page 1 of 2     1     2