Forrest Griffin vs. Rashad Evans |
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coldchillin
In Full Mount
Career record: 182-88
Season: 65-35 (#302)
Location:
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Evans will take down Griffin at ease and win a very boring decision.
This one is going to be a snoozer.
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Post #16 9/9/08 5:22:04PM
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breakdown5
Standup Guy
Career record: 189-88
Season: 72-28 (#65)
Location: NY 518
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Forrest will keep his hands up and use his reach to keep Rashad at bay until Rashad eventually gasses. Rashad throws a lot of power in his punches and he will wear himself out. Once he gasses, Forrest will punish him with leg kicks. If he takes Forrest down, Forrest has the skills to tap him out. But I think coming off this win over Chuck, Rashad will want to come out and bang with Forrest and prove that the KO wasn't a fluke.
In the end, I really think that Forrest will pound on Rashad for the remainder of the fight after he gasses, but will not finish. He will take the UD.
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Post #17 9/9/08 6:41:09PM
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mkiv9secsupra
MMA Sensei
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Career record: 222-146
Season: 52-39 (#2180)
Location: ATL, GA
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I really dont think Rashad can go 5 rounds and still have energy to finish Forrest. He was completely exhausted against Tito in the 3rd round so in a five round fight i dont think he will be able to last. And after 3 rounds of Forrest kicking his legs i dont think Rashad will still be able to shoot for takedowns. Rashad will shoot for a sloppy single leg and get himself taken down and mounted and finished by TKO.
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Post #18 9/9/08 7:13:53PM
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mrkennedy
Belt Contender
Career record: 184-88
Season: 72-28 (#121)
Location: montreal
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Griffin UD
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Post #19 9/9/08 7:16:01PM
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gsquat
MMA Sensei
Career record: 139-89
Season: 65-35 (#290)
Location: TC, MI
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Really, there is nothing to suggest that Forrest would beat Rashad. Rashad has gone undefeated in fighting guys like Forrest. Rashad has shown better standup, clinch, and wrestling than Forrest. Rashad has avoided better jujitsu in Stephan Bonnar. Opponents' height and reach is obviously not a problem whatsoever for Rashad. Forrest is another guy who Jardine/Jackson has already defeated. Most who pick Forrest are moreso hoping that he wins as opposed to thinking it. Sorry to tell you, but that doesn't make it more likely.
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Post #20 9/10/08 11:46:02AM
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JasonSmolinski
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 94-58
Season: 64-36 (#578)
Location: Lansing, Michigan
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As much as I like Griffin as a personality and fighter, I think that unless he comes up with a unique gameplan to counter Rashad, he might be in trouble.
Good fighters lose when someone (intentionally or not) counters their specific style; we've seen it recently in fights like Liddell/Jardine, Machida/Ortiz, Penn/Sherk. Taking a fighter out of his comfort zone and making him fight your fight is a much more effective tactic than learning how to deal with a certain style.
In other words, if you know you're going to fight a powerful ground fighter, most people would opt to work on their ground skills. This prepares you to deal with their specialty, but also dooms you into fighting their fight, which ultimately still leaves you at a disadvantage.
So what smarter fighters will do is remove that aspect entirely. Look at last week's Hendo/Palhares fight. Henderson has a terrible record facing BJJ specialists, which probably means he wasn't going to turn into an expert in Jui-Jitsu overnight. Instead, he worked on his takedown defense, so he wouldn't have to fight Palhares's fight. Granted, he went down a couple times, but the majority of the fight was spent in Hendo's world. By the end of the second round, Palhares was too tired to shoot effectively, and looked defeated mentally. As Hendo showed, although risky, it can be smarter to not train to fight against another's strength, but rather to fight a different battle entirely.
That all being said, as stated before, Rashad has the experience and tools necessary to deal with a Griffin-esque fighter. If Griffin is to win, he will have to find Rashad's comfort zone, and take him out of it. Unfortunately, Rashad seems to actually have some knockout power on his feet, and we know he can be a small (albeit a tad boring) wrestler.
So my adivce to Griffin would be to do something unexpected... ruthless non-stop aggression, right in Rashad's face, and don't let up or give him time to think. That, or maybe a spinning backfist or something. Whatever.
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Post #21 9/10/08 1:04:25PM
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mkiv9secsupra
MMA Sensei
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Career record: 222-146
Season: 52-39 (#2180)
Location: ATL, GA
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Posted by JasonSmolinski
As much as I like Griffin as a personality and fighter, I think that unless he comes up with a unique gameplan to counter Rashad, he might be in trouble.
Good fighters lose when someone (intentionally or not) counters their specific style; we've seen it recently in fights like Liddell/Jardine, Machida/Ortiz, Penn/Sherk. Taking a fighter out of his comfort zone and making him fight your fight is a much more effective tactic than learning how to deal with a certain style.
In other words, if you know you're going to fight a powerful ground fighter, most people would opt to work on their ground skills. This prepares you to deal with their specialty, but also dooms you into fighting their fight, which ultimately still leaves you at a disadvantage.
So what smarter fighters will do is remove that aspect entirely. Look at last week's Hendo/Palhares fight. Henderson has a terrible record facing BJJ specialists, which probably means he wasn't going to turn into an expert in Jui-Jitsu overnight. Instead, he worked on his takedown defense, so he wouldn't have to fight Palhares's fight. Granted, he went down a couple times, but the majority of the fight was spent in Hendo's world. By the end of the second round, Palhares was too tired to shoot effectively, and looked defeated mentally. As Hendo showed, although risky, it can be smarter to not train to fight against another's strength, but rather to fight a different battle entirely.
That all being said, as stated before, Rashad has the experience and tools necessary to deal with a Griffin-esque fighter. If Griffin is to win, he will have to find Rashad's comfort zone, and take him out of it. Unfortunately, Rashad seems to actually have some knockout power on his feet, and we know he can be a small (albeit a tad boring) wrestler.
So my adivce to Griffin would be to do something unexpected... ruthless non-stop aggression, right in Rashad's face, and don't let up or give him time to think. That, or maybe a spinning backfist or something. Whatever.
the problem with training for Forrest is Forrest is an extremely versatile fighter and has shown very small holes in his game and not much more other than a chin that could possibly be tougher. Also his comfort zone is wherever you take the fight. He is comfortable on his back, in guard/mount, standing and clinching and is adept at them all.
the style that could beat him is the heavy hitting striker like Jardine and lets face it Rashad is not that style of a striker.
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Post #22 9/10/08 1:24:48PM
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JasonSmolinski
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 94-58
Season: 64-36 (#578)
Location: Lansing, Michigan
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Posted by mkiv9secsupra
the style that could beat him is the heavy hitting striker like Jardine and lets face it Rashad is not that style of a striker.
Yeah. it's not like Rashad has knocked out any tough fighters recently... He only gave Liddell the most damaging hit of his entire career.
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Post #23 9/10/08 1:37:17PM
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mkiv9secsupra
MMA Sensei
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Career record: 222-146
Season: 52-39 (#2180)
Location: ATL, GA
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Posted by JasonSmolinski
Posted by mkiv9secsupra
the style that could beat him is the heavy hitting striker like Jardine and lets face it Rashad is not that style of a striker.
Yeah. it's not like Rashad has knocked out any tough fighters recently... He only gave Liddell the most damaging hit of his entire career.
Hell, Travis Lutter has brutally knocked out a guy with an overhand right, but in no way does that mean he is a heavy hitter.....One or two KO 's doesnt mean he is a badass striker otherwise Chuck would be known as a submission expert since he has submitted guys....
EDIT: im not arguing the fact he can KO people but he is not the Wanderlei or Randleman-esque fighter swinging with KO power in every shot. Rashad waited for the opportunity to deliver a haymaker and landed perfectly and got the KO(which 95% of MMA fighters can do if strategy and opportunity allow them)
Last edited 9/10/08 2:09PM by mkiv9secsupra
Edit note/reason: n/a
2 total post edits
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Post #24 9/10/08 2:02:29PM
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JasonSmolinski
Learning to Sprawl
Career record: 94-58
Season: 64-36 (#578)
Location: Lansing, Michigan
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Posted by mkiv9secsupra
Posted by JasonSmolinski
Posted by mkiv9secsupra
the style that could beat him is the heavy hitting striker like Jardine and lets face it Rashad is not that style of a striker.
Yeah. it's not like Rashad has knocked out any tough fighters recently... He only gave Liddell the most damaging hit of his entire career.
Hell, Travis Lutter has brutally knocked out a guy with an overhand right, but in no way does that mean he is a heavy hitter.....One or two KO 's doesnt mean he is a badass striker otherwise Chuck would be known as a submission expert since he has submitted guys....
EDIT: im not arguing the fact he can KO people but he is not the Wanderlei or Randleman-esque fighter swinging with KO power in every shot. Rashad waited for the opportunity to deliver a haymaker and landed perfectly and got the KO(which 95% of MMA fighters can do if strategy and opportunity allow them)
Fair enough, but you were intially comparing Rashad to Jardine in terms of KO power. After seeing Rashad's hits on Salmon, Chuck, Lambert, I feel it's safe to say he has the knockout power to drop Forrest too, if he catches him cleanly. Granted, any given MMA fighter can score a KO if the timing is perfect, but I think it's going beyond simply "good timing" for Rashad at this point. He can hit hard.
Last edited 9/10/08 2:52PM by JasonSmolinski
Edit note/reason: n/a
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Post #25 9/10/08 2:51:39PM
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fullerene
MMA Sensei
Career record: 202-103
Season: 60-39 (#877)
Location:
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Similar to the Liddell fight I think Forrest--with his superior size, reach and boxing technique--is the smart choice, but I have a feeling that Evans is going to win on his way to becoming a great fighter.
I know people like to apply revisionist history to fights after they are done, but Evans matched up much worse against Liddell.
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Post #26 9/10/08 3:36:19PM
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Bowen50
In Full Mount
Career record: 179-110
Season: 61-39 (#634)
Location: Long Island, NY
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i see a lot of people saying that Rashad will take Forrest down with ease. in my opinion Rashad has very overrated wrestling. he had about a .500 record in college which obviously isn't too great. his striking has obviously improved but it's not as good as Forrest's, though Rashad has much more power. Forrest will have a decent reach advantage and use that to outstrike Rashad. Forrest will damage Rashad with leg kicks just like he did to Rampage, take Rashad down and either finish it late with some GnP or take the decision.
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Post #27 9/10/08 3:52:33PM
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gsquat
MMA Sensei
Career record: 139-89
Season: 65-35 (#290)
Location: TC, MI
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Posted by Bowen50
i see a lot of people saying that Rashad will take Forrest down with ease. in my opinion Rashad has very overrated wrestling. he had about a .500 record in college which obviously isn't too great. his striking has obviously improved but it's not as good as Forrest's, though Rashad has much more power. Forrest will have a decent reach advantage and use that to outstrike Rashad. Forrest will damage Rashad with leg kicks just like he did to Rampage, take Rashad down and either finish it late with some GnP or take the decision.
Yeah, because the reach advantage of virtually evryone else he fought was a real problem for him. And its not like Forrest has been taken down (Ortiz) or G&P'd (Jardine). If you think Forrest is going to win, you're searching for reasons (or just thinking with your hopes).
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Post #28 9/10/08 4:06:33PM
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Frank Mir = Miracle Man
Career record: 153-84
Season: 69-31 (#170)
Location: selden, new york
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Posted by gsquat
Posted by Bowen50
i see a lot of people saying that Rashad will take Forrest down with ease. in my opinion Rashad has very overrated wrestling. he had about a .500 record in college which obviously isn't too great. his striking has obviously improved but it's not as good as Forrest's, though Rashad has much more power. Forrest will have a decent reach advantage and use that to outstrike Rashad. Forrest will damage Rashad with leg kicks just like he did to Rampage, take Rashad down and either finish it late with some GnP or take the decision.
Yeah, because the reach advantage of virtually evryone else he fought was a real problem for him. And its not like Forrest has been taken down (Ortiz) or G&P'd (Jardine). If you think Forrest is going to win, you're searching for reasons (or just thinking with your hopes).
well Forrest was GnPed by Jardine because he got hit with a well placed punch so that really isn't a good example for the argument you are proposing. it is however a good example of how Rashad can catch Forrest with a well placed punch...although Rampage landed some brutal hooks that didn't seem to face Forrest too badly. Forrest has also gained a lot of confidence since the Tito fight and as he showed in the 2nd and 3rd rounds he had the tools to win that fight. i am personally going to go with Forrest because he has shown that he can win in multiple ways against top 10 opponents where as Rashad has just shown that he has one punch power, but not much else. i am not saying Rashad doesn't have any other skills, it is just that i haven't had the opportunity to see him use them against top competition.
_______________________________________
What did Frank Mir do that Fedor, Barnett and Henderson could not?
Answer: 0__0
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Post #29 9/10/08 4:21:53PM
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mkiv9secsupra
MMA Sensei
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Career record: 222-146
Season: 52-39 (#2180)
Location: ATL, GA
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Another point:
Forrest beat the #1 LHW in the world in Maurico Rua then beat the #1 LHW in the world in Quinton Jackson back to back. Both of which have been known for their devastating strikes and explosiveness yet Forrest grinded them down for the W. Judging by Forrest's last 2 fights there is nothing to indicate that Rashads explosiveness or striking are going to be enough to get him the W in this one.
Like i said, Forrest's biggest weakness is his chin and if Shogun and Jackson(both of which have a better striking and grappling pedigree than Rashad) couldnt capitalize on that then i am inclined to believe that Rashad is not going to KO Forrest either.
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Post #30 9/10/08 4:50:09PM
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