The Ultimate Fighter 13 Finale winner Clay Guida: "Wrestling wins championships"

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pmoney
6/5/11 9:45:28AM
LAS VEGAS – UFC lightweight contender Clay Guida's grappling-heavy victory over Anthony Pettis (13-2 MMA, 0-1 UFC) may have done little to wow some fans, but "The Carpenter" doesn't regret the strategy.

Sure, he would have liked to finish the fight just as much as Spike TV-viewers probably hoped to witness such a result in the co-feature of Saturday night's The Ultimate Fighter 13 Finale event, but it simply didn't happen.

Nevertheless, Guida (29-11 MMA, 9-5 UFC) never thought once about straying from his wrestling-based approach. After all, Guida is simply following a blueprint established by countless others – control the position, control the fight.

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Jekyll
6/5/11 11:46:25AM
Clay the Carpet Guida... loses fantasitcally, wins by LnP
DeadHead988
6/5/11 12:49:05PM
It really wasn't lay and pray, Pettis's awesome guard just made the grappling into somewhat of a stalemate, which the man on top almost always wins.
SNAPNAPORTAP
6/5/11 1:37:20PM
......zzzzzzz.....Oh, sorry, I just woke up from watching Guida fight again......
hashyandy4
6/5/11 1:56:54PM
Guida is rite, i didnt really think that fight last nite was boring at all
casketcoin
6/5/11 2:19:51PM
its kind of hard to win a fight when youre fighting the captain of the bayside tigers wrestling team
Jekyll
6/5/11 2:25:38PM

Posted by hashyandy4

Guida is rite, i didnt really think that fight last nite was boring at all

it wasn't a fight, it was wrestling...

i love a good ground fight but when you are just there trying not to lose its not fighting
pmoney
6/5/11 2:34:39PM

Posted by Jekyll


Posted by hashyandy4

Guida is rite, i didnt really think that fight last nite was boring at all

it wasn't a fight, it was wrestling...

i love a good ground fight but when you are just there trying not to lose its not fighting



This! For what the ground game should be, look at Torres-Johnson. That's a "fight" on the ground. Of course, that was a BS outcome, the guy who worked the most for the finish didn't win. I digress...

Pettis had good wrist control going, and was good at neutralizing Clay from the top. But there needs to be stand ups. There aren't any anymore. And it pisses me off. If the guy on top isn't improving his position or throwing significant strikes, and the guy on the ground isn't sweeping or going for subs, stand it up.

I am all for doing what you need to do to win. But when you use your wrestling to just gain position, and then don't threaten with strikes or subs, you aren't fighting, you're wrestling.

And we know why Guida went with the gameplan he did. He used his wrestling to avoid getting KTFO or subbed. Or, to essentially avoid the fight.
Jekyll
6/5/11 2:58:23PM
Guida went into the fight to not lose, he did not go in wanting to win.


Fighting to win is much different then fightin to not lose. Guida never tried to win, he spent the whole fight trying to not lose, and that was his plan.
SNAPNAPORTAP
6/5/11 3:08:29PM

Posted by Jekyll

Guida went into the fight to not lose, he did not go in wanting to win.


Fighting to win is much different then fightin to not lose. Guida never tried to win, he spent the whole fight trying to not lose, and that was his plan.



AMEN!!
prozacnation1978
6/5/11 3:55:57PM
Did guida take a GSP seminar or something
Aether
6/5/11 6:52:45PM
I find Guida boring as well, but he wasn't COMPLETELY inactive on top. As usual he wasn't throwing anything that would threaten to end the fight, but he was throwing a lot of shoulder strikes, knees to the back of the legs, and light hammerfists. They shouldn't count as much as hard strikes thrown from a postured fighter, but they also shouldn't be completely ignored.

Pettis' guard was very active but it wasn't very threatening IMO. If you compare his guard against Guida to Maldonado's guard against Kingsbury for example, you can see that When Maldonado attacked from the bottom he was really putting Kingsbury in danger and forcing positional advantages, whereas Pettis was mostly just forcing him to stay busy defending.

Personally I would like for BJJ to be scored far more than it is (which is basically not at all. You either submit the guy or you're losing the fight) but I think that neither guy was posing a lot of threat to the other in this fight even when you take the submission attempts into consideration. If the fight were scored in Japan I think it could have been called either way to be honest.

The obvious comparison that most people are going to make on this fight is Torres vs Johnson, but I think this fight was quite a bit different, because Johnson was REALLY inactive while on top. I counted around a half a dozen hammerfists in the second round, and dozens of elbows and heel strikes from Torres from the bottom. I also felt that Miguel's guard was considerably more threatening and forced a lot of sweeps.

I think that Guida vs Pettis would very likely have ended up in a split decision for either guy under Japanese judging rules where they take offensive guards into consideration, whereas I think Torres vs Johnson would've been an easy UD for Torres.
KungFuMaster
6/5/11 7:08:00PM
I have no problem with the way Guida fights. He is very limited to what he can do but he makes up for it with movement, wildness and a relentless approach to prevent his opponents from setting up anything.

Guida's hair bobbing and frantic movements are more entertaining than some fights.
bjj1605
6/5/11 7:15:43PM
Between Aether, Jekkyl, and pmoney I think its all been said.

Guida is boring and fights not to lose. Its the epitome of lay and pray.

Jiu jitsu isn't scored near enough in MMA.
Wolfenstein
6/6/11 1:48:59AM
I think a lot of us saw this coming from a mile away. The truth is Pettis was nowhere near ready for a title shot. Although Pettis had a very active guard, all he seemed to have in his arsenal was a triangle and an armbar--and by now most mma vets have defended and drilled those thousands of times...unless you catch them napping they have a very small success rate.

It was a pretty boring bout to be honest. Not taking anything away from Guida, but I'm not even sure he landed a single clean shot in fifteen minutes. They'll probably both walk away looking the same as they did before the bout. I don't think Guida was trying to LnP, but he wasn't exactly trying to finish the bout either.
vomitshovel
6/6/11 6:03:07AM
i appreciate a good ground war more than most but Guida is the most frustrating fighter to watch. All he did was defend.
I'm sorry but once people use rubber guard effectively all this wrestling dominance crap will end, and exciting fights will resume. As soon as people can work rubber guard they will INVITE the lay n pray.
I think guys like Pettis, Machida, Silva, any striker that keeps getting held down but also has offensive Jiu Jitsu would WRECK people if they just knew rubber guard.
Bubbles
6/6/11 9:39:22AM
i really dont understand how Guida is a "boring fighter." i guess his 4 or 5 FOTN bonuses mean nothing.

here is something you guys should consider: this is Guida's first and probably only chance at a UFC title shot. when you are at the bottom of the ladder, it is much easier to fight more reckless because you cant really fall that much farther down (not to mention the competition is vastly weaker). when you are in the conversation of title contention, you need to fight smarter otherwise you will NEVER get a title shot. we all love Leben for his brawler style, but he does that because he knows he will never get near a title contention shot. Guida has been the same way, standing and trading with better strikers or submitting cans/hasbeens (ie Gugerty and Gomi respectively) and can put on a show. it isnt very often that the upper echelon of each division (save HW) finish fights when pitted against each other....keep that in mind

yeah it wasnt the most entertaining fight ever, but the fact is he is fighting smart. if he came in there with guns ablazing and stood with Pettis and lost via TKO, everyone would either say "WOOOOO PETTIS!!!! best striking in the UFC LW division, give him his title shot!!!!" or "Guida came in with a dumb game plan striking with a much better striker. Kudos to Pettis for winning."
Jekyll
6/6/11 10:03:52AM

Posted by Bubbles

i really dont understand how Guida is a "boring fighter." i guess his 4 or 5 FOTN bonuses mean nothing.

here is something you guys should consider: this is Guida's first and probably only chance at a UFC title shot. when you are at the bottom of the ladder, it is much easier to fight more reckless because you cant really fall that much farther down (not to mention the competition is vastly weaker). when you are in the conversation of title contention, you need to fight smarter otherwise you will NEVER get a title shot. we all love Leben for his brawler style, but he does that because he knows he will never get near a title contention shot. Guida has been the same way, standing and trading with better strikers or submitting cans/hasbeens (ie Gugerty and Gomi respectively) and can put on a show. it isnt very often that the upper echelon of each division (save HW) finish fights when pitted against each other....keep that in mind

yeah it wasnt the most entertaining fight ever, but the fact is he is fighting smart. if he came in there with guns ablazing and stood with Pettis and lost via TKO, everyone would either say "WOOOOO PETTIS!!!! best striking in the UFC LW division, give him his title shot!!!!" or "Guida came in with a dumb game plan striking with a much better striker. Kudos to Pettis for winning."

hes fighting not to lose, not fighting to win, thats why people do not like him.


you can fight to win and still fight smart. Most of his fights against higher end figthers are him fight to not lose. Go watch his fight with Diaz, its the same thing, and it was a BS call, all he did in that fight was defend and take Diaz down and do NOTHING with the takedown. Guida is the perfect example of why scoring needs to change. Simply by being on top should not mean you win, Guida showed that is you just keep top position and do NOTHING with it you get a cheap win.
Bubbles
6/6/11 2:55:29PM

Posted by Jekyll


Posted by Bubbles

i really dont understand how Guida is a "boring fighter." i guess his 4 or 5 FOTN bonuses mean nothing.

here is something you guys should consider: this is Guida's first and probably only chance at a UFC title shot. when you are at the bottom of the ladder, it is much easier to fight more reckless because you cant really fall that much farther down (not to mention the competition is vastly weaker). when you are in the conversation of title contention, you need to fight smarter otherwise you will NEVER get a title shot. we all love Leben for his brawler style, but he does that because he knows he will never get near a title contention shot. Guida has been the same way, standing and trading with better strikers or submitting cans/hasbeens (ie Gugerty and Gomi respectively) and can put on a show. it isnt very often that the upper echelon of each division (save HW) finish fights when pitted against each other....keep that in mind

yeah it wasnt the most entertaining fight ever, but the fact is he is fighting smart. if he came in there with guns ablazing and stood with Pettis and lost via TKO, everyone would either say "WOOOOO PETTIS!!!! best striking in the UFC LW division, give him his title shot!!!!" or "Guida came in with a dumb game plan striking with a much better striker. Kudos to Pettis for winning."

hes fighting not to lose, not fighting to win, thats why people do not like him.


you can fight to win and still fight smart. Most of his fights against higher end figthers are him fight to not lose. Go watch his fight with Diaz, its the same thing, and it was a BS call, all he did in that fight was defend and take Diaz down and do NOTHING with the takedown. Guida is the perfect example of why scoring needs to change. Simply by being on top should not mean you win, Guida showed that is you just keep top position and do NOTHING with it you get a cheap win.



there is a difference between Guida's top game (where if you actually watch the fight, he was able to advance position a few times, throw some gnp, and avoid all submission attempts), Fitch's top game (sit in guard, hold opponent down, throw a billion strikes), and Evans' top game (hold opponent down, fall asleep on top til ref stands them up).

the name of the game is to WIN. without winning, you dont have a job. they are the ones with their careers on the line, not armchair experts like yourself. not every fight is going to be a barnburner, and Guida has had enough of them to excuse a "boring" fight every now and then. this is a sport first and foremost, entertainment second. the objective in every sport IS TO WIN.

btw i dont remember him fighting "not to lose" against Florian or Sanchez...and those are "higher end fighters"
Jekyll
6/6/11 3:38:01PM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by Jekyll


Posted by Bubbles

i really dont understand how Guida is a "boring fighter." i guess his 4 or 5 FOTN bonuses mean nothing.

here is something you guys should consider: this is Guida's first and probably only chance at a UFC title shot. when you are at the bottom of the ladder, it is much easier to fight more reckless because you cant really fall that much farther down (not to mention the competition is vastly weaker). when you are in the conversation of title contention, you need to fight smarter otherwise you will NEVER get a title shot. we all love Leben for his brawler style, but he does that because he knows he will never get near a title contention shot. Guida has been the same way, standing and trading with better strikers or submitting cans/hasbeens (ie Gugerty and Gomi respectively) and can put on a show. it isnt very often that the upper echelon of each division (save HW) finish fights when pitted against each other....keep that in mind

yeah it wasnt the most entertaining fight ever, but the fact is he is fighting smart. if he came in there with guns ablazing and stood with Pettis and lost via TKO, everyone would either say "WOOOOO PETTIS!!!! best striking in the UFC LW division, give him his title shot!!!!" or "Guida came in with a dumb game plan striking with a much better striker. Kudos to Pettis for winning."

hes fighting not to lose, not fighting to win, thats why people do not like him.


you can fight to win and still fight smart. Most of his fights against higher end figthers are him fight to not lose. Go watch his fight with Diaz, its the same thing, and it was a BS call, all he did in that fight was defend and take Diaz down and do NOTHING with the takedown. Guida is the perfect example of why scoring needs to change. Simply by being on top should not mean you win, Guida showed that is you just keep top position and do NOTHING with it you get a cheap win.



there is a difference between Guida's top game (where if you actually watch the fight, he was able to advance position a few times, throw some gnp, and avoid all submission attempts), Fitch's top game (sit in guard, hold opponent down, throw a billion strikes), and Evans' top game (hold opponent down, fall asleep on top til ref stands them up).

the name of the game is to WIN. without winning, you dont have a job. they are the ones with their careers on the line, not armchair experts like yourself. not every fight is going to be a barnburner, and Guida has had enough of them to excuse a "boring" fight every now and then. this is a sport first and foremost, entertainment second. the objective in every sport IS TO WIN.

btw i dont remember him fighting "not to lose" against Florian or Sanchez...and those are "higher end fighters"

because he couldn't hold them down... and if you watch ALL of guidas fights, his exciting fights are the ones he loses...he looks like a better fighter when he loses then he does when he wins
Wolfenstein
6/6/11 6:47:29PM

Posted by Bubbles


Posted by Jekyll


Posted by Bubbles

i really dont understand how Guida is a "boring fighter." i guess his 4 or 5 FOTN bonuses mean nothing.

here is something you guys should consider: this is Guida's first and probably only chance at a UFC title shot. when you are at the bottom of the ladder, it is much easier to fight more reckless because you cant really fall that much farther down (not to mention the competition is vastly weaker). when you are in the conversation of title contention, you need to fight smarter otherwise you will NEVER get a title shot. we all love Leben for his brawler style, but he does that because he knows he will never get near a title contention shot. Guida has been the same way, standing and trading with better strikers or submitting cans/hasbeens (ie Gugerty and Gomi respectively) and can put on a show. it isnt very often that the upper echelon of each division (save HW) finish fights when pitted against each other....keep that in mind

yeah it wasnt the most entertaining fight ever, but the fact is he is fighting smart. if he came in there with guns ablazing and stood with Pettis and lost via TKO, everyone would either say "WOOOOO PETTIS!!!! best striking in the UFC LW division, give him his title shot!!!!" or "Guida came in with a dumb game plan striking with a much better striker. Kudos to Pettis for winning."

hes fighting not to lose, not fighting to win, thats why people do not like him.


you can fight to win and still fight smart. Most of his fights against higher end figthers are him fight to not lose. Go watch his fight with Diaz, its the same thing, and it was a BS call, all he did in that fight was defend and take Diaz down and do NOTHING with the takedown. Guida is the perfect example of why scoring needs to change. Simply by being on top should not mean you win, Guida showed that is you just keep top position and do NOTHING with it you get a cheap win.



there is a difference between Guida's top game (where if you actually watch the fight, he was able to advance position a few times, throw some gnp, and avoid all submission attempts), Fitch's top game (sit in guard, hold opponent down, throw a billion strikes), and Evans' top game (hold opponent down, fall asleep on top til ref stands them up).

the name of the game is to WIN. without winning, you dont have a job. they are the ones with their careers on the line, not armchair experts like yourself. not every fight is going to be a barnburner, and Guida has had enough of them to excuse a "boring" fight every now and then. this is a sport first and foremost, entertainment second. the objective in every sport IS TO WIN.

btw i dont remember him fighting "not to lose" against Florian or Sanchez...and those are "higher end fighters"



Winning is great, but if you're not exciting nobody is going to care. If nobody cares, the noone is buying PPV's, and I think the Guida's and GSP's of the world are going to get a cool splash of reality real soon...when the only reason left to tune into them is because you want to see them get beat...not because they're fun to watch...Floyd Mayweather-esque I guess.
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