shonie carter speaks out on the ufc

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disorderlyvision
11/29/07 9:26:23PM
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SC: As soon as I get back, I'm going to see what's up because I know the UFC was tripping about me fighting. I'm like, look, I can't sit around and wait all year and they didn't use me all year. I mean, my rent was due. Even me going to Canada…I mean, the whole story behind me fighting goes beyond the fight. I owed child support and I was paying the mom instead of paying the state. I go to renew my passport and they cease my passport and give me 24 hours to pay it or I'm going to get a knock on the door by the sheriff.
bullettdodger
11/29/07 10:07:33PM
thats pretty shady
cmill21
11/29/07 10:19:07PM
Not sure why he takes a shot at Hendo, guy was the 185 champ and 205 champ, KO'd wand wo dominated Rampage twice and he doesn't deserve it?
Rush
11/29/07 10:37:47PM

Posted by cmill21

Not sure why he takes a shot at Hendo, guy was the 185 champ and 205 champ, KO'd wand wo dominated Rampage twice and he doesn't deserve it?



I think he's bitter and rightfully so. If the UFC is keeping him on the line and he has to eat, I don't blame him for being pissed. I agree though, the shot a Henderson was off.
bullettdodger
11/29/07 10:45:09PM
agreed
stickyhash421
11/29/07 10:58:40PM
shonie=jealous
TimW001
11/29/07 10:59:22PM
He seems really distressed, and he has every right to be.
cmill21
11/29/07 10:59:49PM

Posted by stickyhash421

shonie=jealous



Then they should release him.
disorderlyvision
11/29/07 11:12:20PM
i've always liked shonie, i dont know why the ufc isnt using him. like he said he is used as a gauge to see where other fighter are at. he has been through it all and is a crafty veteran. he isnt an easy fight for anyone. i would like to see him fight.


"SC: Somebody needs to holla at me brother. Put me in a movie. Did you see Forrest Griffin on the show; Randy and all these guys? What the **** man? I'm cost affective. I come with my own wardrobe. All of the fighters getting sponsorships and you see my shorts be looking blank as ****. No Toyo Tires, no Ecko or Xyience. What's up Affliction and Tapout? Put this in the interview: space for hire on Shonie's trunks. I'll even wear boy shorts if I have to and you know I hate wearing them fuckers. I'll wear biker shorts. I don't care. **** that, put patches on them. It could be Mom and Pops Greasy Spoon. I don't care."

that about made me spit out my soda, funny shit!
JimiMak
11/30/07 1:06:37AM
I don't think he's great, but it's sad to see a long standing name like that begging for sponsors. I'd like to see him do what JT did and say "I have other offers, put me to work or please release me" He seems to be waiting for a longshot at someone getting injured or sumthing. I understand asking for bigger money when you can, but some guys (like JT) will take smaller money for an interesting fight. That can help record and standing. If JT wins his next cpl, considering the camps he's w/ and making the move to the states, He could make a UFC debut in the next yr or 2. It's not all record, and some of it is marketability, he may not have the best record... but he's hightly marketable in the US (i think)

I think Shonie should ask for release and try to headline small events. Just me.
The_hungry_lumberjack
11/30/07 1:28:25AM
Man Shonie sounds like he's reaching the breaking point and I definately don't blame him. He's treated like dirt, got bills up the rear that he can't pay cause his employers wont let him do his job (which he happens to be good at) and the government is ****** with him too. He's pretty much broke after giving his entire life to the sport, and Dana "Solid Platinum Rims" White is making money hand over fist for being a (poor) promoter/figurehead. Shonie is one of the people that helped build the sport when it was small and he deserves to reap his share of the benifits not live in a ******* tiny ass house almost broke.
Jackelope
11/30/07 2:30:42AM

Posted by The_hungry_lumberjack

Man Shonie sounds like he's reaching the breaking point and I definately don't blame him. He's treated like dirt, got bills up the rear that he can't pay cause his employers wont let him do his job (which he happens to be good at) and the government is ****** with him too. He's pretty much broke after giving his entire life to the sport, and Dana "Solid Platinum Rims" White is making money hand over fist for being a (poor) promoter/figurehead. Shonie is one of the people that helped build the sport when it was small and he deserves to reap his share of the benifits not live in a ******* tiny ass house almost broke.

mrsmiley
11/30/07 7:17:37AM
Does the UFC have a union yet?

If not,I wish they would realy find new management.Ican see a book now:

"Dana White.The rise and fall of the UFC".
How one promoter turned the fastest growing sport in America into a forgotten past time.

Something like that anyway.
wapttn
11/30/07 9:59:22AM
You know what book would be fun to read? How about "Dana white: responsible for the rise of the ufc in the first place"
How one promoter brought a sport from obscurity and turned it into the fastest growing sport in north america. You always have to give credit to the product, fighters in this case, but about 80% of this sports fanbase owes their knowledge of the sport to dana white.

Shonie carter is a bum and the ufc owes him nothing. Carter has 63 professional fights, only 6 with the ufc.. he has less of a claim to the origin of the ufc than ken shamrock, and i thought it was bs when he was calling out the ufc. Carter has lost his last 3 ufc fights and doesnt have a win in the ufc since he back handed serra in 2001.

Whats the ufc gonna do? keep him on the shelf until his contract expires unless an interesting fight comes up that they can use him in. He's not good enough to compete, why throw in a has-been for an easy win when for a fraction of the price, you can throw in a young no-namer with huge potential?

Why does nobody want to sponsor Mr. International? "Cause shonie dont give a ****" I suspect that nobody has wanted to sponsor him since watching him on TUF. Chances are, now that he's begged.. he'll probably get it from somewhere, but prepare to see mattress king on his speedo next time he fights.

Should the ufc release him? Nothing says that they have to, but a man has to eat so it's probably the humane thing to do. But seriously.. a guy who has been fighting pro for 10 years should have enuff money saved up, or the investments to survive a one year layoff. It's not the ufc's fault that he spends 3/4 of his paycheque on rhinestones and fur.
mrsmiley
11/30/07 10:18:41AM
It's bad business.As many of stated before,Dana White is not interested in the fighters and their well being,he is only interested in the UFC itself.He promotes the brand and little else.To an extent their is nothing wrong with this,because in a sport like MMA you can't bank on having any one fighter dominate for very long.That in itself is a security measure which is understandable within reason.But when a guy like Rampage comes out and knocks out Liddell and then is compared to Buster Douglas by the companies president.Well I can think of more bad spots on Whites record than I can good.


"but about 80% of this sports fanbase owes their knowledge of the sport to dana white."

In America i will agree with you.But MMA was rich in Japan way before Dana White was even in the business.I would say 80% of the fanbase in america owes it to white.

If a guy like Shonie Carter was busted for child support they'll be some idiot columnist who rights an aritcle on how the UFC allows dead beat dads to fight in their promotion.In will be totaly wrong and bias,but it will happen.Worse yet,Dana Whites reaction to such and article will be loaded with four letter words and a lot of nonsense.

I understand were your coming from though and the part of Shonie to an extent.
xburbx
11/30/07 11:58:05AM
Dana runs a good business. Shonnie doesnt pull any real value. Why would a business pay or use an employee that doesnt pull their weight. Shonnie can go get a regular job if he cant cut it with the UFC. Nothing is holding him back. He made the choice to put himself in these situations in terms of child support, bills etc. These guys bitch and moan like they are owed something. They are just employees of a company. The UFC is here to make money, not make sure that underperforming employees get paid. I think a fighters union would hinder the growth of the sport. If the UFC has to waste money on sticking to fighters union rules, they cant put that money towards promoting and growing the sport. People always want handouts.
wapttn
11/30/07 12:17:47PM
"In America i will agree with you.But MMA was rich in Japan way before Dana White was even in the business.I would say 80% of the fanbase in america owes it to white."

Definately, I should've mentioned that i was talking about the NA fanbase.

I do however disagree with xblurbx.

Dana does run a good business, and shonie does have limited value, but shonie can not go out and get a regular job. He could probably open up a martial arts gym somewhere and teach little kids how to throw the spinning backfist and when they're done with that, show them how to decorate their hats.. but this guy is a fighter and is not going to find a real job. The fighters are not just employees of a company, they are the product of the company. In a business like the ufc's its a smart move to treat your fighters well, and with respect.. shelfing shonie isnt out of disrespect, its cause they dont think they can use him. The ufc is not here to just make money, they are here to grow the sport and increase its market.. thats why they've done so well, and thats why they make the money that they do.

I personally think that a fighter's union would be a good idea, but right now is not the time nor the place for it. The ufc has tried to expand so hard and so fast that much of its profits are going to unseen expenses such as interest and repayment of their debt. When the ufc is able to realize their profits a fighter's union would help settle what a fighter should be paid, which result in happier fighters and fewer contract disputes.
Jackelope
11/30/07 12:19:45PM

Posted by wapttn

You know what book would be fun to read? How about "Dana white: responsible for the rise of the ufc in the first place"
How one promoter brought a sport from obscurity and turned it into the fastest growing sport in north america. You always have to give credit to the product, fighters in this case, but about 80% of this sports fanbase owes their knowledge of the sport to dana white.

Shonie carter is a bum and the ufc owes him nothing. Carter has 63 professional fights, only 6 with the ufc.. he has less of a claim to the origin of the ufc than ken shamrock, and i thought it was bs when he was calling out the ufc. Carter has lost his last 3 ufc fights and doesnt have a win in the ufc since he back handed serra in 2001.

Whats the ufc gonna do? keep him on the shelf until his contract expires unless an interesting fight comes up that they can use him in. He's not good enough to compete, why throw in a has-been for an easy win when for a fraction of the price, you can throw in a young no-namer with huge potential?

Why does nobody want to sponsor Mr. International? "Cause shonie dont give a ****" I suspect that nobody has wanted to sponsor him since watching him on TUF. Chances are, now that he's begged.. he'll probably get it from somewhere, but prepare to see mattress king on his speedo next time he fights.

Should the ufc release him? Nothing says that they have to, but a man has to eat so it's probably the humane thing to do. But seriously.. a guy who has been fighting pro for 10 years should have enuff money saved up, or the investments to survive a one year layoff. It's not the ufc's fault that he spends 3/4 of his paycheque on rhinestones and fur.



You're right, but it just shows the flaws in the exclusivity of the contracts. Whether Shonie Carter sucks or not is one thing, but forcing a man into a contract and then not paying him is a whole 'nother. That's where I see the problem
taporsnap25
11/30/07 12:27:49PM
maybe it's time to stop blaming everyone else and do what needs to be done. if you're not fighting and child support needs to be payed, go out and get a 9 - 5 job like everyone else and stop bitching about it. life doesn't always work out the way you want it to, but if you have responsibilities like a kid, that needs to be looked after. everyone really needs to stop playing the victim role and be accountable.
xburbx
11/30/07 12:35:49PM
- agreed TAPORSNAP25.
GlancyMMA
11/30/07 12:38:21PM
I know Shonie thinks he's the greatest fighter of all time, and being "mr.international" doesn't help. But getting a job on a coaching staff is not beneth him.... teaching MMA pays good money.....

35 years old.... I mean he's got a TON of experience.... let someone else benefit from that....

Go to a camp and teach MMA, or Muay Thai or BJJ, or judo.... that doesn't conflict with his contract. It'll pay his child support.....and it'll keep him in good shape if and when he gets called up to fight.

I'm sure he can use his name to make good money at a gym thats trying to get a higher profile...

check out my gym (TKMT in Toronto).... no big names coaching, but I know that they would pay a TON for a guy like Shonie to raise there profile and better their fighters.

**** it if you don't have sponsors...now.... tell me a guy you teach at would jump on a sponsorship if you could get UFC approval.... what gym doesn't wanna invest in a coach/fight to promote them on the big stage.
xburbx
11/30/07 12:45:36PM

Posted by wapttn

"In America i will agree with you.But MMA was rich in Japan way before Dana White was even in the business.I would say 80% of the fanbase in america owes it to white."

Definately, I should've mentioned that i was talking about the NA fanbase.

I do however disagree with xblurbx.

Dana does run a good business, and shonie does have limited value, but shonie can not go out and get a regular job. He could probably open up a martial arts gym somewhere and teach little kids how to throw the spinning backfist and when they're done with that, show them how to decorate their hats.. but this guy is a fighter and is not going to find a real job. The fighters are not just employees of a company, they are the product of the company. In a business like the ufc's its a smart move to treat your fighters well, and with respect.. shelfing shonie isnt out of disrespect, its cause they dont think they can use him. The ufc is not here to just make money, they are here to grow the sport and increase its market.. thats why they've done so well, and thats why they make the money that they do.

I personally think that a fighter's union would be a good idea, but right now is not the time nor the place for it. The ufc has tried to expand so hard and so fast that much of its profits are going to unseen expenses such as interest and repayment of their debt. When the ufc is able to realize their profits a fighter's union would help settle what a fighter should be paid, which result in happier fighters and fewer contract disputes.



How is Shonie's lack of job skills the UFC's problem? Because Shonie cant go out and get a regular job does not mean that the UFC is obligated to employ him. Its not their problem. I agree that fighters are also products for the UFC. Why would you put a product out that doesnt sell? If Shonie (product) was marketable and the UFC thought he was the best product in a situation, I am sure they would use him. If a product doesnt sell, pull it off the shelf or the company loses money. The Fertitas and Dana got into this business as an investment, so to say it isnt just about the money might be true in the future, but for most investors, its about the money. The UFC carries very little debt considering they purchased it for 2million dollars and one of the largest expenses to date has been a 20million dollar branding campaign. For a company guessed to be worth over 1billion dollars, 20million is a drop in the bucket. If they are running their company well (which they seem to be), they are probably close to debt free if not fully debt free. The UFC should pay the fighters exactly how much a fighter is willing to fight for and no more. When a fighter signs a contract, that means it is the amount he is willing to fight for, so when they turn and bitch and say "we dont get paid enough" then go find another line of work or shutup.
Jackelope
12/1/07 1:39:52AM

Posted by xburbx


Posted by wapttn

"In America i will agree with you.But MMA was rich in Japan way before Dana White was even in the business.I would say 80% of the fanbase in america owes it to white."

Definately, I should've mentioned that i was talking about the NA fanbase.

I do however disagree with xblurbx.

Dana does run a good business, and shonie does have limited value, but shonie can not go out and get a regular job. He could probably open up a martial arts gym somewhere and teach little kids how to throw the spinning backfist and when they're done with that, show them how to decorate their hats.. but this guy is a fighter and is not going to find a real job. The fighters are not just employees of a company, they are the product of the company. In a business like the ufc's its a smart move to treat your fighters well, and with respect.. shelfing shonie isnt out of disrespect, its cause they dont think they can use him. The ufc is not here to just make money, they are here to grow the sport and increase its market.. thats why they've done so well, and thats why they make the money that they do.

I personally think that a fighter's union would be a good idea, but right now is not the time nor the place for it. The ufc has tried to expand so hard and so fast that much of its profits are going to unseen expenses such as interest and repayment of their debt. When the ufc is able to realize their profits a fighter's union would help settle what a fighter should be paid, which result in happier fighters and fewer contract disputes.



How is Shonie's lack of job skills the UFC's problem? Because Shonie cant go out and get a regular job does not mean that the UFC is obligated to employ him. Its not their problem. I agree that fighters are also products for the UFC. Why would you put a product out that doesnt sell? If Shonie (product) was marketable and the UFC thought he was the best product in a situation, I am sure they would use him. If a product doesnt sell, pull it off the shelf or the company loses money. The Fertitas and Dana got into this business as an investment, so to say it isnt just about the money might be true in the future, but for most investors, its about the money. The UFC carries very little debt considering they purchased it for 2million dollars and one of the largest expenses to date has been a 20million dollar branding campaign. For a company guessed to be worth over 1billion dollars, 20million is a drop in the bucket. If they are running their company well (which they seem to be), they are probably close to debt free if not fully debt free. The UFC should pay the fighters exactly how much a fighter is willing to fight for and no more. When a fighter signs a contract, that means it is the amount he is willing to fight for, so when they turn and bitch and say "we dont get paid enough" then go find another line of work or shutup.



What is with you people? Because the UFC makes it a part of their contract that these people cannot get another job!!!!!! Exclusivity rights come into play here and I guarantee you the UFC can afford a lot better attorney than Shonie Carter can. I'm not willing to sit there and just say "aww poor guy" but there's really little this guy can do. He fights for a living, he has a job and he loves said job. What is wrong with him wanting a company who hired him and put a contract upon him having him fight for said contract? All he's asking for is a fight, which is something they promised him... so how is Shonie the bad guy?

For those of you who are saying that there are plenty of schools that would pay a teacher I have to just laugh at you. Obviously you've never been an instructor at a school because there are very little (even successful schools) that can afford to hire another instructor. Most MMA/Martial Arts instructors are broke but they do what they do because they love what they do. I know a million martial arts teachers who could become cops or something else getting paid a couple tens of thousands more a year.
mrsmiley
12/1/07 8:00:54AM

Posted by Jackelope


Posted by xburbx


Posted by wapttn

"In America i will agree with you.But MMA was rich in Japan way before Dana White was even in the business.I would say 80% of the fanbase in america owes it to white."

Definately, I should've mentioned that i was talking about the NA fanbase.

I do however disagree with xblurbx.

Dana does run a good business, and shonie does have limited value, but shonie can not go out and get a regular job. He could probably open up a martial arts gym somewhere and teach little kids how to throw the spinning backfist and when they're done with that, show them how to decorate their hats.. but this guy is a fighter and is not going to find a real job. The fighters are not just employees of a company, they are the product of the company. In a business like the ufc's its a smart move to treat your fighters well, and with respect.. shelfing shonie isnt out of disrespect, its cause they dont think they can use him. The ufc is not here to just make money, they are here to grow the sport and increase its market.. thats why they've done so well, and thats why they make the money that they do.

I personally think that a fighter's union would be a good idea, but right now is not the time nor the place for it. The ufc has tried to expand so hard and so fast that much of its profits are going to unseen expenses such as interest and repayment of their debt. When the ufc is able to realize their profits a fighter's union would help settle what a fighter should be paid, which result in happier fighters and fewer contract disputes.



How is Shonie's lack of job skills the UFC's problem? Because Shonie cant go out and get a regular job does not mean that the UFC is obligated to employ him. Its not their problem. I agree that fighters are also products for the UFC. Why would you put a product out that doesnt sell? If Shonie (product) was marketable and the UFC thought he was the best product in a situation, I am sure they would use him. If a product doesnt sell, pull it off the shelf or the company loses money. The Fertitas and Dana got into this business as an investment, so to say it isnt just about the money might be true in the future, but for most investors, its about the money. The UFC carries very little debt considering they purchased it for 2million dollars and one of the largest expenses to date has been a 20million dollar branding campaign. For a company guessed to be worth over 1billion dollars, 20million is a drop in the bucket. If they are running their company well (which they seem to be), they are probably close to debt free if not fully debt free. The UFC should pay the fighters exactly how much a fighter is willing to fight for and no more. When a fighter signs a contract, that means it is the amount he is willing to fight for, so when they turn and bitch and say "we dont get paid enough" then go find another line of work or shutup.



What is with you people? Because the UFC makes it a part of their contract that these people cannot get another job!!!!!! Exclusivity rights come into play here and I guarantee you the UFC can afford a lot better attorney than Shonie Carter can. I'm not willing to sit there and just say "aww poor guy" but there's really little this guy can do. He fights for a living, he has a job and he loves said job. What is wrong with him wanting a company who hired him and put a contract upon him having him fight for said contract? All he's asking for is a fight, which is something they promised him... so how is Shonie the bad guy?

For those of you who are saying that there are plenty of schools that would pay a teacher I have to just laugh at you. Obviously you've never been an instructor at a school because there are very little (even successful schools) that can afford to hire another instructor. Most MMA/Martial Arts instructors are broke but they do what they do because they love what they do. I know a million martial arts teachers who could become cops or something else getting paid a couple tens of thousands more a year.



Agree.

If Shonie is under contract it's the UFCs obligation to help make sure he gets fights.It's like being employed by a company,but never being put on the schedule.

I'm willing to bet their is more to the story than we know,but if Shonie is under a contract,then he should be given fights. What's even more remarkable is were my brother used to train,his instructor had contemplated becoming a cop because he wasn't making any money as an instructor,and made very little fighting.You hit it dead on when it comes to being an instructor.
xburbx
12/1/07 8:47:11AM

Posted by mrsmiley


Posted by Jackelope


Posted by xburbx


Posted by wapttn

"In America i will agree with you.But MMA was rich in Japan way before Dana White was even in the business.I would say 80% of the fanbase in america owes it to white."

Definately, I should've mentioned that i was talking about the NA fanbase.

I do however disagree with xblurbx.

Dana does run a good business, and shonie does have limited value, but shonie can not go out and get a regular job. He could probably open up a martial arts gym somewhere and teach little kids how to throw the spinning backfist and when they're done with that, show them how to decorate their hats.. but this guy is a fighter and is not going to find a real job. The fighters are not just employees of a company, they are the product of the company. In a business like the ufc's its a smart move to treat your fighters well, and with respect.. shelfing shonie isnt out of disrespect, its cause they dont think they can use him. The ufc is not here to just make money, they are here to grow the sport and increase its market.. thats why they've done so well, and thats why they make the money that they do.

I personally think that a fighter's union would be a good idea, but right now is not the time nor the place for it. The ufc has tried to expand so hard and so fast that much of its profits are going to unseen expenses such as interest and repayment of their debt. When the ufc is able to realize their profits a fighter's union would help settle what a fighter should be paid, which result in happier fighters and fewer contract disputes.



How is Shonie's lack of job skills the UFC's problem? Because Shonie cant go out and get a regular job does not mean that the UFC is obligated to employ him. Its not their problem. I agree that fighters are also products for the UFC. Why would you put a product out that doesnt sell? If Shonie (product) was marketable and the UFC thought he was the best product in a situation, I am sure they would use him. If a product doesnt sell, pull it off the shelf or the company loses money. The Fertitas and Dana got into this business as an investment, so to say it isnt just about the money might be true in the future, but for most investors, its about the money. The UFC carries very little debt considering they purchased it for 2million dollars and one of the largest expenses to date has been a 20million dollar branding campaign. For a company guessed to be worth over 1billion dollars, 20million is a drop in the bucket. If they are running their company well (which they seem to be), they are probably close to debt free if not fully debt free. The UFC should pay the fighters exactly how much a fighter is willing to fight for and no more. When a fighter signs a contract, that means it is the amount he is willing to fight for, so when they turn and bitch and say "we dont get paid enough" then go find another line of work or shutup.



What is with you people? Because the UFC makes it a part of their contract that these people cannot get another job!!!!!! Exclusivity rights come into play here and I guarantee you the UFC can afford a lot better attorney than Shonie Carter can. I'm not willing to sit there and just say "aww poor guy" but there's really little this guy can do. He fights for a living, he has a job and he loves said job. What is wrong with him wanting a company who hired him and put a contract upon him having him fight for said contract? All he's asking for is a fight, which is something they promised him... so how is Shonie the bad guy?

For those of you who are saying that there are plenty of schools that would pay a teacher I have to just laugh at you. Obviously you've never been an instructor at a school because there are very little (even successful schools) that can afford to hire another instructor. Most MMA/Martial Arts instructors are broke but they do what they do because they love what they do. I know a million martial arts teachers who could become cops or something else getting paid a couple tens of thousands more a year.



Agree.

If Shonie is under contract it's the UFCs obligation to help make sure he gets fights.It's like being employed by a company,but never being put on the schedule.

I'm willing to bet their is more to the story than we know,but if Shonie is under a contract,then he should be given fights. What's even more remarkable is were my brother used to train,his instructor had contemplated becoming a cop because he wasn't making any money as an instructor,and made very little fighting.You hit it dead on when it comes to being an instructor.



Most instructors in martial arts are not business oriented people. For those that are good at business, there is money to be made, just like any other industry. Take a guy like Matt Serra who does do well with his 4 schools. It comes down to marketing and business more than how good you are at martial arts. If you dont market and operate a business well, your business will go nowhere.
Jackelope
12/1/07 12:34:26PM

Posted by xburbx


Most instructors in martial arts are not business oriented people. For those that are good at business, there is money to be made, just like any other industry. Take a guy like Matt Serra who does do well with his 4 schools. It comes down to marketing and business more than how good you are at martial arts. If you dont market and operate a business well, your business will go nowhere.



Agreed to some extent. However, there are also business owners/instructors that have too much respect for the arts themselves to turn it into an enterprise. Somewhere along the lines something gets lost. It takes years and years and years to build up great students good enough to teach it the way you want it to be taught.
xburbx
12/1/07 12:43:50PM
Fair enough
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