Kharitonov vs Nog

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ICSlegend
4/14/08 10:57:23AM
Just rewatched this one again. How in the hell did Nog manage that gift decision?

Nog had nothing for Sergei. Sergei tried subs, sweeped Nog, slammed out of the triangle, rolled out of the omaplata, and tagged him up standing. It was far from domination, as Nog had some control and shots too, one big knee on the ground, but Sergei was pretty evidently the winner. Anyone else think this?
ICSlegend
4/15/08 12:33:35PM
No one has seen this fight or has an opinion on it

Imagine the impact if the judges made the right choice and it was Sergei in there against Fedor? Sergei edges Fedor in the standup, and can nuetralize his Sambo. Would have been a war, and Kharitonov may have just ended up on top. Can you image that?
Chuteboxer
4/15/08 2:43:30PM
I have not seen the fight...but I've always thought that Kharitonov was an underrated fighter in that division...it would be a coo fight to see Fedor and Sergei go at it. but then again, there are some who will say, "Oh, but Sergei lost to Alexander, therefore he couldn't beat Fedor."
AnDeRsonDaSiLvA
4/15/08 9:29:40PM
Had sergei gotten past fedors brother then they would of fought. ala cro cop .

i do agree this decision could go either way. same with the ricco / nog fight.
jgtribbett
4/15/08 10:24:07PM
i'll tell you how...

judge one: but nog is a god
judge two: but i was sure nog would win
judge three: pride owners say if i want my pay check ... nog wins


hahahahahaha

jk but who knows.. i feel about the same about it as you do
tomp6581
4/16/08 4:13:22AM

Posted by ICSlegend

Just rewatched this one again. How in the hell did Nog manage that gift decision?

Nog had nothing for Sergei. Sergei tried subs, sweeped Nog, slammed out of the triangle, rolled out of the omaplata, and tagged him up standing. It was far from domination, as Nog had some control and shots too, one big knee on the ground, but Sergei was pretty evidently the winner. Anyone else think this?



To be honest Ive only watched the fight once, when I bought the dvd. But I remember it being a pretty close call (also a great fight!). Not sure I agree that Sergi was a clear winner, but I might watch it again to be sure.

Pride had a "who finished strongest" points scoring system to prevent people protecting a strong opening round. This had an influence on alot of close decisions if I remember correctly.
ICSlegend
4/16/08 6:30:55AM

Posted by tomp6581

To be honest Ive only watched the fight once, when I bought the dvd. But I remember it being a pretty close call (also a great fight!). Not sure I agree that Sergi was a clear winner, but I might watch it again to be sure.

Pride had a "who finished strongest" points scoring system to prevent people protecting a strong opening round. This had an influence on alot of close decisions if I remember correctly.



Yeah, the first time I watched the fight I didn't have a problem with it, seemed pretty close, and of course Nog the far more popular fighter. But the second time it became very obvious Sergei had a clear edge the entire fight (not a big one, but definitely an evident one).

Neither one had a strong finish really, a little bit of back in forth, with mostly Sergei walking Nog down and reversing his sub attempt.
tomp6581
4/16/08 11:50:04AM

Posted by ICSlegend


Posted by tomp6581

To be honest Ive only watched the fight once, when I bought the dvd. But I remember it being a pretty close call (also a great fight!). Not sure I agree that Sergi was a clear winner, but I might watch it again to be sure.

Pride had a "who finished strongest" points scoring system to prevent people protecting a strong opening round. This had an influence on alot of close decisions if I remember correctly.



Yeah, the first time I watched the fight I didn't have a problem with it, seemed pretty close, and of course Nog the far more popular fighter. But the second time it became very obvious Sergei had a clear edge the entire fight (not a big one, but definitely an evident one).

Neither one had a strong finish really, a little bit of back in forth, with mostly Sergei walking Nog down and reversing his sub attempt.




There were a few dodgy decisions in Pride looking back so it wouldnt suprise me to be honest. Remember:

Rampage v Ninja
Nog V Ricco
Wandy v Hunt


ICSlegend
4/16/08 12:08:48PM

Posted by tomp6581

There were a few dodgy decisions in Pride looking back so it wouldnt suprise me to be honest. Remember:

Rampage v Ninja
Nog V Ricco
Wandy v Hunt





True, but those are talked about and mentioned a lot, Sergei Vs Nog doesn't for some reason. Just shedding light on yet another very dodgy decision.
Pookie
4/16/08 1:15:59PM
...I thought hunt beat Wandy....
kaduey
4/16/08 2:27:27PM
I think Nog controlled most of the fight with Kharitonov. It was a tough fight but Pride judging rules rightfully determined Minotauro the winner.
hippysmacker
4/17/08 4:27:54AM
Very close fight, but I give Nog the slight edge here, . I also agree that Ricco beat Nog and was robbed. The Nog /Werdum fight was also close , but I still give the edge to Nog there too. Judges..pshh Still, if you let it get to the judges, bad stuff happens sometimes. One more thing about Nog/Kharotanov. It was a tournament fight, and only went 2 rounds becuase of it. Sure would have liked to see that 3rd round. Another reason I'm not overly fond of tournaments. I only like them if they space it out, with only fight per fighter a night, and make the fight the same rules as normal. Then it's less likely to be about injuries, stamina, and who you fought in a earlier round.
ICSlegend
4/17/08 11:55:28AM

Posted by kaduey

I think Nog controlled most of the fight with Kharitonov. It was a tough fight but Pride judging rules rightfully determined Minotauro the winner.



Would love to hear how that happened! While stuck in Sergei's guillotine, getting sweeped, slammed, pounded on while on the bottom, or taking a ton of body shots while on the feet and unloading air jabs which Sergei kept avoiding? Or was it when he was running away from Sergei's punches at the end of the 2nd round?

PRIDE decision judging criteria:
If the match reaches its time limit then the outcome of the bout is determined by the three judges. The fight is scored in its entirety and not round-by-round. After the third round, each judge must decide a winner. Matches cannot end in a draw. A decision is made according to the following criteria in this order of priority:

1. the effort made to finish the fight via KO or submission,
2. damage given to the opponent,
3. standing combinations and ground control,
4. takedowns and takedown defense,
5. aggressiveness, and
6. weight (in the case that the weight difference is 10 kg/22 lb or more).

1. Sergei slight edge. Sergei had the tightest attempt, Nog tried more subs but none were even close. Sergei had much harder/more shots while on top and was landing a lot more standing.
2. Sergei. Just cause he was bleeding from one or two shots doesn't mean he took much damage. He was tagging Nog up standing, and landed some really hard body shots. Not to mention he landed some punches with distance while on top, whereas Nog only had really short peppering shots while on top.
3. Sergei. Nullified Nog's ground game, took little damage. Never in danger in any subs (had the guillotine in pretty damn tight on Nog).
4. Sergei by slight edge. Nog got the first takedown and landed in Guillotine then got sweeped. Got Sergei down with a lot of effort the 2nd attempt. And failed to takedown Sergei the 3rd attempt when he had his leg, and again failed to take Sergei down with double leg. Nog got stuffed again in the last takedown attempt at the end of the 2nd, before getting reversed.
6. N/A (Nog is heavier by 21lbs?)

Kharitonov shut down Nog's game and was outstriking him. Nog was walking him down in the first round on the feet, but Sergei had Nog ON THE RUN in the last round. Strong finish. Clear victory for Kharitonov based on PRIDE rules imo. And yeah, it definitely needed a 3rd round.

Mastodon2
4/17/08 6:18:47PM

Posted by tomp6581

There were a few dodgy decisions in Pride looking back so it wouldnt suprise me to be honest. Remember:

Rampage v Ninja
Nog V Ricco
Wandy v Hunt





Saying as Wanderlei was their golden boy, why would they give a dodgy decision to cheat him out of a win? If anything, given Wanderlei's status, they would have swung the fight to have Wanderlei win.

Hunt just surprised everyone by out striking Wanderlei, not being a total slouch on the ground and pushing the action against the Axe murderer, something few tried, as few were capable of surviving. But saying as Hunt was a K-1 GP winner, is it really that surprising that Hunt outstruck him, and landed that huge bomb in the second round?
ICSlegend
4/17/08 11:48:52PM

Posted by Mastodon2

Saying as Wanderlei was their golden boy, why would they give a dodgy decision to cheat him out of a win? If anything, given Wanderlei's status, they would have swung the fight to have Wanderlei win.

Hunt just surprised everyone by out striking Wanderlei, not being a total slouch on the ground and pushing the action against the Axe murderer, something few tried, as few were capable of surviving. But saying as Hunt was a K-1 GP winner, is it really that surprising that Hunt outstruck him, and landed that huge bomb in the second round?



I remember the fight being very even. Hunt had substantial weight advantage. That is one of the points on a decision.

And when I think of dodgy, I don't think of intentionally "screwing" a fighter, just a bad decision. Like Hamill-Bisping, I think its premature to assume the UFC rigged it, just that the judges didn't do their job.
hippysmacker
4/18/08 12:36:16AM

Posted by ICSlegend


Posted by Mastodon2

Saying as Wanderlei was their golden boy, why would they give a dodgy decision to cheat him out of a win? If anything, given Wanderlei's status, they would have swung the fight to have Wanderlei win.

Hunt just surprised everyone by out striking Wanderlei, not being a total slouch on the ground and pushing the action against the Axe murderer, something few tried, as few were capable of surviving. But saying as Hunt was a K-1 GP winner, is it really that surprising that Hunt outstruck him, and landed that huge bomb in the second round?



I remember the fight being very even. Hunt had substantial weight advantage. That is one of the points on a decision.

And when I think of dodgy, I don't think of intentionally "screwing" a fighter, just a bad decision. Like Hamill-Bisping, I think its premature to assume the UFC rigged it, just that the judges didn't do their job.



I actually think Hunt gets the nod there becuase of the knockdowns ,and the atomic butt drop popping the crowd probably didn't hurt. I do agree that Wandy landed more strikes total, but I think Hunt just did more damage with his and was undamaged by Wandy. Thats Hunt for ya.
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